Author Topic: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.  (Read 7935 times)

[SJ]volvo745

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2007, 12:10:20 pm »
Like your talking Jeff...... :biggrin:
I went back to my old Logitech from G25.......much nicer.
Even a old Nascar Wheel feels better....... :)

See you mate............Per... :biggrin:

[SJ]GT_Raycer

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2007, 04:26:52 pm »
Jeff...Here;s my (unsolicited) 2 cents (which is probably more like 5 or 6 of your Aussie cents, depending on current exchange rates  lol )

It's like Sandy said...Nothing worthwhile is easy.  Your driving skills took practice...Your video making skills didn't come overnight either, I'll bet...And, learning all the .PLR file tweaks + video tweaks + such, that you know now took TIME and experimentation.

I suggest that you give it a bit more time.  Try saving your wheel settings (in the controller options in-game) after you set it up, so if they aren't there when you load the game, you can LOAD them + not have to reset them individually again.

I still plan to upgrade to a G25, and I expect that there will be some experimenting with settings required, as well as a learning curve associated with driving with a clutch + gated 6 speed. 

Hang in there + give it hell, buddy!   :salute:

[SJ]dirtyvfr

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2007, 06:08:38 pm »
Jeff, with autoclutch off, you don't need the clutch to change up or down, just like a motorbike. i will add that i do use the clutch when changing down on a bike but if needs must i don't.

the only time i touch the clutch in GTL is at the start and maybe a little slip here or there to bring the revs up, oh yes and when i crash to stop it stalling :)

just hang in there Jeff it will all come together.

 

[SJ]Hecta

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2007, 02:17:51 am »
Ok, now i have another friggin problem - what is with this wheel? - is it so good that its full of complications just to get over before ya get it right?  Now, for some unknown reason its now -8% out of centre! GGRRRRR  Starting to piss me off!!  If this keeps up I'm chucking the whole thing in - it aint worth all the hassle!

[SJ]GT_Raycer

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2007, 03:01:33 am »
Jeff...Are you using the centering spring?  I'm still using my MOMO, but I use the centering spring at 50%.  I'm sure the G25 has that option.

 :salute:

sandyk

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2007, 03:04:49 am »
Jeff, your first post with what the problem was, sounded like you got a faulty one, now if its off centre take it back. It really shouldnt be such a problem, the G25 is an exceptional wheel.

[SJ]Hecta

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2007, 03:14:55 am »
No - it been fine - why today? - it seems it just wanted to piss me off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sandyk

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2007, 03:20:11 am »
cant answer that one mate, but all I know is my g25 had nowhere near the probs, or anything remotly similar to the ones you have been complaining about. If I pay out good money and get crap for it, I always take it back.. no wonder the local PC shop hates me.. :dunno:

[SJ]INSTG8R

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2007, 09:02:58 pm »
The only thing you should have checked in the Control Panel is FFB effects nothing else and the FFB should be the only one with anything on it(to personal taste, me personally 100% and adjust anything else in game)

[SJ]dirtyvfr

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2007, 10:36:35 am »
i'm with tornado, my GTL racing gloves have been removed for a few days until and can get a better G25 GTL "setup feel" ie. ONE THAT IS INSTINCTIVE & INTUATIVE, will start with INSTG8R setup tonight.

BUT i do now have 3 rfactor .ini files that are much much better then i was using ie.default and 2 of them are both INSTINCTIVE & INTUATIVE (tested at Mount Panorana in a 911, driving in a racing style and a very wild rally style), i'll post them up tonight.

 




   
« Last Edit: February 27, 2007, 02:57:30 pm by SJ_dirtyvfr »

[SJ]Hecta

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2007, 10:42:23 am »
Thanks Gogs & INSTG8R - but I really don't think they will help - but I will try everything you all suggested - ta

Jeff

[SJ]INSTG8R

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2007, 07:25:40 pm »
I think you are just destined to hate it now, and no advice or help is gonna make you like it Im afraid..... :dunno:

[SJ]dirtyvfr

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2007, 09:39:31 pm »
your having a laugh with your G25 GTL settings, they have no connection with reality at all, ok so the wheel kicks about a bit, but thats about it, there is no feeling of winding lock on and feeling it getting tighter until it lets go, you can go from half to full lock and the only thing you notice is tyre smoke ! there is zero feedback from the wheel. 

now this might be in part do to me using your setting in my .plr file and also turning everything off in the game specific section of the profiler.

 

 


[SJ]INSTG8R

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2007, 01:56:39 pm »
your having a laugh with your G25 GTL settings, they have no connection with reality at all, ok so the wheel kicks about a bit, but thats about it, there is no feeling of winding lock on and feeling it getting tighter until it lets go, you can go from half to full lock and the only thing you notice is tyre smoke ! there is zero feedback from the wheel. 

now this might be in part do to me using your setting in my .plr file and also turning everything off in the game specific section of the profiler.


For clarification mate those were done for the DFP not the G25(I havent had the time or drive to update the whole thread as I have planned to do for a while now)
I dont see alot of unhappy users with those settings(not sure how many pages it is but I dont recall any complaints outside of the "wobble" which is more user related than to my settings)

My main point is do not use the Profiler(the actual program)I cannot stress this enough(install it and forget it even exists). the Picture of the CP for the DFP is set in STONE as far as Im concerned. There is NO benefit to adjusting anything in there outside Overall Strength and Rotation unless you want the fiction you speak of.

GTL has the worst FFB of this engine as far as Im concerned.(you again can call my profile "unrealistic" but try it vs default EXACTLY how I have it set up, but there is of course the matter of personal taste and FFB strength overall which is where most of the wobble complaints pop up)I do not want a race car that drives like its got single finger power steering from a Coupe De Ville, this profile can achieve that and still remain "unstable" Try it with a Vette or a the big Jag, then try a Lotus Elise. You will at least feel a difference in the "character" of the car the first ones being "truck like" and the latter feeling light and snappier.That is not there using the Defaults.
 It sounds like its more grip weight your after Try adjusting these ones a bit.

FFB steer force output max="2.00000" // Maximum force output of steering force, recommendation 0.8 to 2.0
FFB steer force grip weight="0.40000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.4 to 0.9.  How much weight is given to tire grip when calculating steering force.
FFB steer force grip factor="0.60000" // Range 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.2 to 0.6.  How much of a factor the front wheel grip is on the steering weight.

That is much better than default as far as conerning weight goes from default, the default makes the wheel basically go limp with the DFP, the G25 handles that effect differently with more of a tire shake tho I havent really spent alot of time in GTL as its my least favourite.

You just have to keep in mind I want my FFB heavy(some guys like that "Power Steering" or no real FFB at all outside of Impacts so they might as well have stuck to a Vibration Wheel anyway) and everyones taste is different(you can try my rFactor or GTR2 ones if ya like I play them more and have taken the time to make G25 adjustments. ;)


[SJ]dirtyvfr

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2007, 02:43:46 pm »
when we manage to get our hands on the GPEDIT thing, see another post it will be better i'm sure, as loading up different FFB setting for different cars with be a lot easier.

i do understand what you are saying.

i'm looking for an unassisted feel.

so when the car is stationary, when you turn the steering wheel you are in fact trying to lift the car off the ground with the steering !!!!!!!! so the steering should be heavy with a good bit of self centre (don't like the term self centering), as that's where the steering is in equalibrium  .

but as the car builds up speed the steering should lighten up a good bit.

as the car moved to an oversteering situation the road wheels are travelling in the same directions as they where before the oversteer, sort of and the angle of attack of the front tyres should mean that you have a similar feel of self centering but with the steering turned at an angle of say 50 degrees off of centre, the issue i find with my current setup is that when the car goes into oversteer the steering sometime has an excess of resistance, like a steering damper on a bike stopping you turning wheel quickly, when in fact a real car almost wants to steer into the skid, assuming you notice it's going into this condition and have not started to add more lock.

i'm total at a lose as to why, the programmers of such advanced software and modelling of car phyisics haven't got the feel of the steering right, i understand that they can't write a FFB file for all types of wheels, but i would have thought logitech would have worked with the bigger software developers and racing drivers and thus added a button like, real feel.

 

 

 

   



 

[SJ]INSTG8R

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2007, 08:44:21 pm »
Yes I get what your after. I still cant get the kinda deadzone I want out of rFactor yet(trying the new line that was added in 1.250 but still experimenting with it)I have read about GPEDIT and I think that will make the whole thing easier.The GUI hack for GTR2 was a huge help as well fine tuning my GTR2 profiles.
If your after unassisted then you damn well better follow my advice about the CP settings at least then,because ANYTHING outside of that is going to "Logi-Assisted" ;)
« Last Edit: February 28, 2007, 08:46:58 pm by SJ_INSTG8R »

sandyk

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2007, 11:12:53 pm »
i was using your advice in the game controller panel Inst, but have reverted back to my 110% strength, 100 spring strength and 20% Damper effect and I can now feel when the front wheels have locked or understeering. Didnt get that feel with them all off.

[SJ]INSTG8R

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2007, 09:03:04 am »
Again it all comes down to personal taste. You may be onto something with the 110% tho as the DFP had a built in setup to increase the internal FFB force to 100% from its default 60%. I found anything over 100% on the DFP would really bring "The Wobble" out. I am still trying to muscle some more tension out of it so I may try pushing it up some.
As for the wheels locking and understeering that is all under that section I posted and applies to all games on this engine(rFactor has a bit more adjustment in that area then the older ones but the basic ones still have the same effect)
I still stand by turning nothing on but Overall Strength. You can get the feeling you want, it just involves tweaking.
You would be happier with a higher Grip Weight and Grip Factor adjustments then as those will increase those sensations(think default GTL  DFP limpness I was talking about) you just need to find a balance between those 2.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2007, 09:44:01 am by SJ_INSTG8R »

[SJ]INSTG8R

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #43 on: March 01, 2007, 10:02:25 am »
Sandy I just gave your CP settings a try. I get what your saying about lack of feedback under oversteer/loss of grip, at least in rFactor anyway.I didnt see any improvement in those sensations using yours it just felt stiffer and muddier actually(I couldnt feel anymore loss of grip)
It is actually proving to be a challenge now that you have me "trying" to get that loss of grip feeling(despised it in GTL so this was my reasoning of digging into the PLR's in the first place)
I have just spent half an hour or so messing with my own profiles and messing with the grip section. I am using the E46 BMW mod to test as its the most "gripless" rFactor mod I can think of.
TBH I suppose Im a bit of Sunday Driver really, I am the kind of guy who tries to barely get the tires scrubbing so of course you folks that throw it around(hmm Richie comes to mind....) would be more likely to get to those limits than me in regular driving situations, but so far I havent had much luck even if I try to throw it about.
I may have to go back to a default GTL PLR loosen it up to those awful levels then adjust it back.
The profile I did post is pretty much default now in the Grip section and the rest would be my regular settings.
One thing I didnt do to my rfactor ones yet is kill all the damping section in rFactor like I did in GTL. It "livened" it up some as far as bringing in more sensations from the car.
I am typing over my wheel as we speak so you have all gotten me motivated to balance this out.

[SJ]dirtyvfr

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #44 on: March 01, 2007, 10:20:45 am »
had a good play about online in rFactor last night, Leinz challenge thing in a spec'd up 271 bhp car and a good go of PorscheCC and a hour or so of HRC, tried a few .ini files and increased the steering wheel rotation from 360 to 450 and 500 and 900, played about with the in car steering lock as well and rfactor FFB GUI strenth , as well as the control panel force strength and effects strength / spring and damping in each mod.

didn't come to any concusions TBH, apart from all the cars drive very differently and all the tracks are very different too, so changing stuff just takes a bit of time to get used to and there are advantages and disadvantages with all the settings and what works for 1 mod and 1 car doesn't work for other mods in other cars.

 

 

 




[SJ]Jarkko Rantajoki

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #45 on: March 01, 2007, 10:39:28 am »
I think overdoing gets you nowhere, i just sort the settings so that i got decent feel and control of the car and it works fine... only thing i change is the degree of rotation for different types of cars (and games)... 330 on some and 440 on the rest.. fairly simple :)

[SJ]INSTG8R

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #46 on: March 01, 2007, 12:09:59 pm »
Well I am on a mission to gets some loss of grip in rF but to be honest I cant get it anywhere close to say GTL levels(excessive) or much of any for that matter.rF has the most adjustment in this dept. but nothing I try seems to have any effect.
Waiting to get a hold of GP Edit to see if I can find something useful with it.


Okay Im pretty happy with this one. Tested it with a few of the stock cars(hatches, coupes, and the big V8 hammer) at Leinz GP(good choice with the cobblestone bits)The effort definitely builds and you can most definitely feel loss of grip(was obvious when goosing it mid turn)Of course I dont know how it will react to other mods with FFB enhancements in them but as a "stock" one it feels pretty good.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2007, 01:07:05 pm by SJ_INSTG8R »

[SJ]INSTG8R

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #47 on: March 01, 2007, 01:07:30 pm »
Okay Im pretty happy with this one. Tested it with a few of the stock cars(hatches, coupes, and the big V8 hammer) at Leinz GP(good choice with the cobblestone bits)The effort definitely builds and you can most definitely feel loss of grip(was obvious when goosing it mid turn)Of course I dont know how it will react to other mods with FFB enhancements in them but as a "stock" one it feels pretty good.

[SJ]dirtyvfr

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2007, 01:58:32 pm »
one thing i have noticed, is that the FFB settings change when the screen savers has kicked in, not sure if it's the screen saver that's doing or a power saving thing.

have turned of Hibernate and all other power saving type things and the screen saver is also off.

not sure if anyone else has had the same problem



 

[SJ]INSTG8R

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Re: G25 - Well, it's crap actually.
« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2007, 03:11:17 pm »
one thing i have noticed, is that the FFB settings change when the screen savers has kicked in, not sure if it's the screen saver that's doing or a power saving thing.

have turned of Hibernate and all other power saving type things and the screen saver is also off.

not sure if anyone else has had the same problem



 


Check your USB Hubs in Dev Man.,make sure they arent set to "Allow Windows to turn off this device to save power"