Author Topic: Training Video or Articles?  (Read 4225 times)

[SJ]Dion Holzheimer

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Training Video or Articles?
« on: October 01, 2006, 01:29:06 pm »
Im always up for making a training video or an article to help explain certain techniques in GTL.

If you have any topics you would like me or others to help you with please post them and I will do my best.
If you want a training video made on a certain technique or something or an artcile (similar to the trailbraking thread) then post away.

It would not be hard at all for Myself to put together something to help others and im sure i can get some help from Confuser and T Hez also.

Im not a perfect driver by any means but i belive I can get some decent answers and videos done to help whom ever needs it.

Bowshock

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Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2006, 03:31:10 pm »
You Da MAN!!!   O0

How about something on approaching a new track.  How do you go about learning when to break accellerate, etc.

 ;D

[SJ]Jarkko Rantajoki

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Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2006, 03:39:56 pm »
a video with commentary is always better than article..
the watgins glen vid is really good :)

[SJ]Pierre61

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Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2006, 06:46:18 pm »
Great offer Dion :)
As you asked ....
I'd like to see you take us into the garage and deliberately set up a car to oversteer (or understeer), explain the forces involved then take the car to track and show the oversteer effect. I'd like you to then take us back to the garage and show us how you counter the effects.

I know the above would take a serious investment in time, but I've never found anything like it on the net :)

Cheers
Peter

[SJ]GizMoTo

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Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2006, 06:52:14 pm »
do we get a guarantee to become alien drivers after watching these vids ??

been looking forward to followups of the first ya did bud

SJ_GizMoTo

[SJ]Dion Holzheimer

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Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2006, 01:03:49 am »
Great offer Dion :)
As you asked ....
I'd like to see you take us into the garage and deliberately set up a car to oversteer (or understeer), explain the forces involved then take the car to track and show the oversteer effect. I'd like you to then take us back to the garage and show us how you counter the effects.

I know the above would take a serious investment in time, but I've never found anything like it on the net :)

Cheers
Peter


Sadly setup is about the only thing i cant do very well at all. I will talk to T hez and see if he can help me out with that one ;D

I will have a think about how to write up a article about learning a new track, and maybe i can incorporate a video or 2 as well.

[SJ]Pierre61

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Re: Training Video or Articles? Use of Netral Gear when racing
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2006, 11:00:00 am »
Here's one for you Dion .. it's one of thos "I half understand the concept" jobs :)

What are the optimal racing situations for flipping to neutral ger rather than down/up shifting when racing?

Cheers
Peter

[SJ]Byron

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Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2006, 11:27:11 am »
That'd be when you're trying to reverse out of a gravel trap, revving your arse off shouting MOVE YOU BLOODY THING!!!

Oh, hang on... you said optimal not accidental!


[SJ]Dion Holzheimer

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Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2006, 11:32:55 am »
i dont belive its ever good to go to neutral.

You loose all control of the car and engine braking.

[SJ]Dion Holzheimer

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Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2006, 12:01:47 pm »
I was lapping in the Elan recently @ Dijon as one of my mate has the GTL demo and wanted some times to compare... anyway i found myself useing a useful technique that some people may not know or practise.

Its using the throttle and brakes at the same time while trailbraking through a turn to settle a car that is tail happy. its a great technique to use when the car starts to slide, apply both gas and brake, just a bit of each and the car will become much more stable. Experiment with this technique for corners like Dijon turn 1, zolder turn 1 etc, especially in cars like the elan.

Another thing, when you have corners that lead onto big straights, make sure you try to get the power down as early as possible. While sliding the car through bends in GTL is sometimes the fastest way, ive always lived by the rule that if you have to countersteer your sliding too much and its hurting your speed and time. Use the throttle to control these drifts, if they require countersteer then you are applying too much throttle. Rear end steering helps a lot in Dijon corner 1 in getting that 2nd apex before the left kink.

If anybody wants visual explanations of above techniques i can make up a vid.



Now concering the learning a new track, this is what i do.

Load a base setup i have for that car.
Do a lap or so and check to see if the brake bias and gear ratio is to suit, this is harder to do in the 906 and even CSL because of the gearbox, but generally its quite easy to do.
Now you need to work on learning braking points, lines and the track layout so you know where to position your car for the next few bends. Last thing you want is to be on the right hand side for a right hand corner.

Now i generally just keep lapping unless i have a major off and my car is buggered, but if i spin i just keep going. I seem to have a decent idea of braking points to start with but the best way is to pick an object, be it the dark lines on the track, tree, sign, shadow and brake at that mark. Now depending on how you go depends if you move that mark back or forwards. I generally start with marks too early and find i have to go later on the brakes. Keep pushing these marks until your hitting the correct line of the corner, you dont want to be running wide or coming up too short and coasting or re hitting the gas. Remeber this mark and stick to it. if some guy tries to pass you underbrakes do not go past your braking marker, since this represents your limit, if you exceed this you will go off track. If the opponent manages to get his car stoped before yours even though he brakes past your braking marker than try to get him on the exit :D. Its really no use going past your marker in the hope to outbrake him, when all you will do is go off track.

Now we have brakes, gears and braking markers sorted. By this stage ive pretty much know the entire track layout, this takes about 15mins - 20mins for me, but it may vary between long and short tracks etc. So now you know the track and generally where and when you should be braking, your making laps and laps with no off tracks. Now its time to push some limits and go for lap times. Focus on what gears to use for what corners, in the more powerful cars sometimes its better to be in mid rev in 3rd and power out really strong then be high revving in 2nd and then have to change 20m after exiting the corner. In slower cars its nearly always better to use the lowest gear you can without being silly. Again it comes down to experimenting. Push your braking markers to the limit and figure out the best lines to use. If your uncertain try a few different ones and see whats faster. If your still uncertain search for a replay of a fast guy from that track, doenst really matter the car as the lines should pretty much be the same. Now after 40mins ive pretty much got a very decent time and have all the practise i need for a combo. I can still see some more tenths in each sector but i will find those in practise and qualify in race day.

So probably 3 sections to it
1) sort the gears, brake bias and learn the track layout corner by corner
2) find general braking points and focus on completing laps without crashing.
3) Push your braking markers till you cant push them any more, focus on laptimes and getting faster, try different lines and experiment. Download a replay of a fast guy on that track and compare the lines to you.

I hope this makes sense and helps people.

[SJ]Byron

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Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2006, 12:06:17 pm »
Quote from: Fryz
i dont belive its ever good to go to neutral.

You loose all control of the car and engine braking.


[SJ]Dion Holzheimer

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Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2006, 12:09:19 pm »
Quote from: Fryz
i dont belive its ever good to go to neutral.

You loose all control of the car and engine braking.


Hmmm...

As a turtle, I probably shouldn't be disagreeing with an alien but... 

I tend to apply the clutch (which is effectively the same thing) when I feel a spin or a fish-tail coming on, as it sort of frees up the diff and seems to give you equal grip on all four wheels  ???.  I only do it briefly until normal service is resumed!  Works for me anyway.


If that works then thats brilliant!

I personally lift off the gas and be very smooth with the countersteering or apply both brake and a bit of gas.

Id never thought of using the clutch. But i think that would take to much time for me to do.

[SJ]Byron

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Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2006, 12:14:32 pm »

[SJ]Dion Holzheimer

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Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2006, 12:17:42 pm »
It probably does slow me down a bit, but one thing I've learned here at SJ is... 

Better to lose half a second on the track than 5 seconds on the gravel.  (It's my new motto!  :D )

Nice work on the track learning tutorial, Fryz...  Don't give away all your secrets or we'll be catching you up (not!)

 :D :D :D


Another is

10 decent laps is better than 9 blazing laps and a big crash, youd be suprised how many really fast drivers make so many mistakes in a race trying to do qualify pace. Generally if your able to match your qualify in a 50min race your qualify wasnt very good.

Zooes

Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2007, 01:48:32 pm »
Hi this may sound stupid and make me out to be rubbish but Ive only started playing the GT series over the past 2 weeks and I find all the cars very difficult to control. I am rather good at games like Toca 3 for example and have a good online ranking etc, But I cant seem to get the hang of GTR 2 or RACE. SinBin I feel makes better simulation games which is why I would like learn to play them but no matter what I seem to do the car just goes off the track and into the gravel or worse a wall and then its damaged and not driveable. is there any hints/tips you could give a newbie. Thanks in advance - Zooes  :ty:

[SJ]Dion Holzheimer

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Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2007, 02:03:38 pm »
Start with an Alfa.

setup Use that setup if you wish. Should give nice results. Maybe move the brake bias more towards the front until you get used to the car.

Download replays from here

basically you need time to adjust and get used to the game. Stick with alfa until your able to do quite a few laps without crashing. Then move your way up the cars. Have a read of my articles once you can drive a few laps and see if they help. I guess the biggest thing you need to focus on is just staying on the track and completing laps. Once you can do this, focus on driving the correct lines (replays should help with that) then and only then, try to go fast. Its more important to get lines right before you start to push.

Hope this helps somewhat...

Bottom line, no quick fix in these games, its just pure practise and effort.

Zooes

Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2007, 10:11:36 pm »
thanks for the advice I understand that these types of games are like nothing Ive ever played before which is really good because If it was Toca 4 or NFS 37  lol for example I could buy it and complete it in a week wheres the fun in that??? GTR2 is the only real sim racer Ive ever played I just finished a race about 10 mins ago and as I played it and got used to the car the better I got I actually finished in the top 15 which has made my day :excited:. I have found that turning off most of the driving aids seems to make the car easier to drive, is it worth leaving them on or taking them off. Its still early days yet so im still not sure :?:. Thanks Small Fryz ive downloaded a couple of the replays and shall try again in the morning. Thanks again -Zooes

[SJ]Dion Holzheimer

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Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2007, 10:28:28 pm »
I run with no aids. I do reccomend that the only aids you do try is ABS, Autoclutch and TCS. Turn all the rest off it just ruins the feel of the car. Do try to learn how to drive with no aids, but i can understand if thats a bit tricky to start with. You should be able to drive the alfa with no aids as its not overly aggresive. But if your really struggling in braking I suggest ABS. Alfa doesnt really have the power for TCS to be needed IMO. Again once your comfortable with driving the car and you know the track then try to run the Alfa with no aids at all (except maybe auto clutch). If you wanted to also turn off Auto clutch then you will have to blip the gas the same time you change down gears to avoid the back wheels locking. You dont need to actually use the clutch except starting though. When changing up gears you can generally just hold it flat and bang it up into the next gear, maybe lifting only when powering on around tighter corners, as you will find the car might want to spin out when changing gears that way. I hope my post made some sense lol

No autoclutch = blip gas on downshifting, dont lift on upshifting, just bang it into gear.
No TCS = May have to be careful powering out of tigher corners, cant just go 100% gas.
No ABS = Be careful braking into corners cant just put the pedal 100% all the time.

Zooes

Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2007, 10:46:29 pm »
Quote
No ABS = Be careful braking into corners cant just put the pedal 100% all the time.

Thanks Fryz I think this is my main problem Ive studied a couple of own replays and its the braking that i'm messin up. Thanks your advice has been very helpful  :biggrin:

[SJ]Riven

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Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2007, 04:29:14 am »
Quote
No ABS = Be careful braking into corners cant just put the pedal 100% all the time.

Thanks Fryz I think this is my main problem Ive studied a couple of own replays and its the braking that i'm messin up. Thanks your advice has been very helpful  :biggrin:

Also dont change down too early, this will over rev the engine and lock the rears also (fronts in the Mini)

[SJ]CasparGTL

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Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2007, 12:41:43 pm »
Just an excercise that was an eye opener for me;

Put your brake foot on the floor and don't move it.
Drive arround without brakes and negotiate every turn just with downshifting and judging the corner. Now you will see that corner exits are crucial and my time of 1.45 at laguna in Escort opposed to 1.40 WITH brakes showed me again the importance of steering, apex, lines etc.
I did this in GPL too and it really helps me.

Of course braking is a crucial thing in being fast and has it's own special addition to the car's behaviour.
But I never start to learn a car or track with finding out how late I can brake.

For later;
Later in the test I start braking later which also gives new info on how to steer stronger, slide etc. when I do that.
When you get to  the 911 versus the Capri for instance, I find that the Capri is faster when I brake sooner and get on throttle sooner and the 911 likes to brake well onto the apex.
It's a lot of fun

Enjoy,  :)

Caspar.

[SJ]Byron

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Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2007, 12:49:29 pm »
That sounds like a good exercise, Caspar...  I'm going to try it.

But:

Quote
Put your brake foot on the floor and don't move it.


I wouldn't get far like that...  seeing as my brake foot is also my accelerator foot!

[SJ]CasparGTL

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Re: Training Video or Articles?
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2007, 06:20:22 pm »
Oh you can do it B., accelerate with your nose. (only for highly trained simmies wirh ample insurance Zooes)