Author Topic: Need help with Heel/Toe  (Read 3979 times)

[SJ]DieselJC

  • *
  • Posts: 348
Need help with Heel/Toe
« on: October 29, 2008, 02:52:09 am »
So I have been trying to tech myself this technique that everyone says is the the best thing next to sliced bread..however..watching youtube vids and reaing articles their seems to be a conflict of what the right way to do it..some actually use the ball of their foot on the brake and pivot their heel to blip the throttle..others say your supposed to use the ball of your foot for both..the G25 pedals are pretty far apart for brake/throttle..I made an aluminum plate to move just the brake pedal pad close about 1 1/2 inches to the throttle but boy is that technique tough to learn..anyonw do this or use it?

JC

[SJ]Peter Enqvist

  • *
  • Posts: 834
Re: Need help with Heel/Toe
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2008, 03:18:30 am »
some actually use the ball of their foot on the brake and pivot their heel to blip the throttle..others say your supposed to use the ball of your foot for both..


I'm no expert on this, but I don't think it matters how you do it as long as you are able to blip the throttle at the same time as you're braking.

I don't have a clutch pedal with my dfp, so I can't practice it with sims, but in my real car the pedals are perfectly placed for heel n toe, but I haven't mastered it just yet.

[SJ]Riven

  • *
  • Posts: 812
Re: Need help with Heel/Toe
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2008, 05:49:06 am »
depending on if the throttle is top or bottom hinged makes a huge difference aswell.

Personally I use the ball of foot on bottom hinged brake, and heel on a top hinged throttle.  This requires greater heel movement which provides better throttle control.  This is in all the Sakers that I have driven.  Its also the same method that I've seen by any GT racer in NZ/Aus/Europe whener the footcam has been shown.

Couple of V8 Supercar foot cam vids.
Greg Murphy - Single seater style, this is using a "dogbox" H-pattern with clutch, no auto-blip/cut or anything either.. there IS a clutch in there still :)

Mark Skaife - This is more of the classic heel-toe imho, he does however have one thing different, he usually downshifts 2 gears at once for better braking control in the hard braking areas.

Neil Crompton - The most classic of the three (imho)

In the V8 Supercars clips above you will notice the brake tap with the left foot before hard braking, this is due to having floating calipers, and as such suffer from pad knock-back causing a longer pedal than normal.  The small brake tap is to bring the pads into place (minimum gap) before hard braking.  Pretty much every V8 Supercar driver develops this habit.


When racing online, I use the Greg Murphy style, when driving a Saker, I use the Neil Crompton style (except for flat shifting).
My road car has ridiculously powerful boosted brakes, so i cant heel-toe in it without locking up :innocent:

[SJ]Andy Fuller

  • *
  • Posts: 483
Re: Need help with Heel/Toe
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2008, 06:05:35 am »
Great stuff Riven  thumbs up

[SJ]Sh1te R1der

  • Handbagger
  • *
  • Posts: 2857
Re: Need help with Heel/Toe
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2008, 10:04:26 am »
Awesome! I have tried to do a bit of all of those, which has resulted in me getting totally confused and crashing... the clutchles shift, left foot brake is what i use, only using the clutch for shortshifts on corner exits to control wheelspin.  I'd like to suggest that it works for me, but results say different!  :twit:

[SJ]DieselJC

  • *
  • Posts: 348
Re: Need help with Heel/Toe
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2008, 10:40:23 am »
Wow..cool vids!..Thanks for the great input and explanations..I'll have to really work on it..its not nearly as easy it looks..I get confused in hard brake zones as to which gear etc..the smoother corners I can do but in sharp panic corners I'm screwed..lol..very cool also is to see how they tap the brake because of the floting calipers..never knew that before..thats cool.


JC

[SJ]Stein

  • "The Watchdog"
  • *
  • Posts: 9033
Re: Need help with Heel/Toe
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2008, 07:42:17 pm »
Standard G25 pedals where a bit too far apart for me; i've mounted the pedals separetely now and placed the gaspedal somewhat lower then the brake; i can now heel& toe easier using the right side of my foot to blip the throttle whilst braking...


after a long race i WILL feel it though...in the ancles.. i can brake much later with it somehow, but i'm still not fool/full proof with it.

Thanks for the vids Riven!  thumbs up


Woof ~ Woof

cant do it in the real car either.. pedalspread too high.

[SJ]Pierre61

  • Master of Ceremonies
  • *
  • Posts: 7109
Re: Need help with Heel/Toe
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2008, 07:53:55 pm »
cant do it in the real car either.. pedalspread too high.


For God's sake man, don't try it in the Rova... the carnage!

[SJ]Hotfoot

  • *
  • Posts: 435
Re: Need help with Heel/Toe
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2008, 08:21:11 pm »
I would say that the second video is the way I've seen most people do it and is the way I use.

[SJ]CasparGTL

  • rFactor Test Driver
  • *
  • Posts: 7790
Re: Need help with Heel/Toe
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2008, 10:09:55 pm »
Awesome! I have tried to do a bit of all of those, which has resulted in me getting totally confused and crashing...


Yep, my way too...
I tried it shortly with P&G but it means starting all over.
Kudos to the peeps that make it work though!  :hats off:

[SJ]Milan Milicevic

  • *
  • Posts: 136
Re: Need help with Heel/Toe
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2008, 10:27:33 pm »
Nice vids here, look at this one too.

Heel/toe technic plus left foot braking technic (together with heel/toe) at the end of video, from 2:11 till the end its great stuff :)

"http://www.youtube.com/v/QW4ef0E7DQs&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6">
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 10:36:12 pm by [SJ]Milan Milicevic »

[SJ]Sh1te R1der

  • Handbagger
  • *
  • Posts: 2857
Re: Need help with Heel/Toe
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2008, 11:41:50 pm »
Nice vids here, look at this one too.

Heel/toe technic plus left foot braking technic (together with heel/toe) at the end of video, from 2:11 till the end its great stuff :)


Friggin' 'ell... looks like me dancing when I'm fully langered!  lol

[SJ]Pierre61

  • Master of Ceremonies
  • *
  • Posts: 7109
Re: Need help with Heel/Toe
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2008, 12:00:28 am »
Friggin' 'ell... looks like me dancing when I'm fully langered!  lol


[SJ]Sh1te R1der

  • Handbagger
  • *
  • Posts: 2857
Re: Need help with Heel/Toe
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2008, 12:44:50 am »
 lol rofl rofl lol

Bastard! Did you break into my house and steal that photo!

[SJ]Riven

  • *
  • Posts: 812
Re: Need help with Heel/Toe
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2008, 03:15:37 am »
Now here some some dancing  :jawdrop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyVHj3sHVHQ

[SJ]Stein

  • "The Watchdog"
  • *
  • Posts: 9033
Re: Need help with Heel/Toe
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2008, 04:56:19 am »
cant do it in the real car either.. pedalspread too high.


For God's sake man, don't try it in the Rova... the carnage!



I sayd Car Pete..... it's easy in the truck!

(but kinda useless cuzz it's an automatic.. but i do get some fast starts at trafficlights if i want to?!)

Woof ~ Woof


[SJ]DieselJC

  • *
  • Posts: 348
Re: Need help with Heel/Toe
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2008, 05:03:57 am »
Now here some some dancing  :jawdrop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyVHj3sHVHQ



Holy Hell...those spectators are nuts!

[SJ]RockyC

  • N.A. League Manager
  • *
  • Posts: 3213
Re: Need help with Heel/Toe
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2008, 05:25:07 am »
Wow, that is awesome Riven!

Well, for me, I feel that there is no absolute way to heel and toe. Personally when driving on the street in my neon I heel and toe. However, I don't do it the traditional way. I use my heel to brake and my toe to blip the throttle when braking and downshifting. So, my foot is sort of angled where my toes are point towards the right more. All of the pedals in that car are hinged from the top. When I am at the track in the 944, I do the same thing. Except that in this car the throttle is hinged on the floor of the car, brake and clutch hinged from the top. I have been doing it this way since I learned how to drive a stick. It just was easier for me in these cars since the throttle is farther back/away than the brake pedal. I have tried doing it the traditional way, but it just doesn't work for me.

Here is Boris Said doing it the traditional way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihCgxQnex5Q&NR=1

Here is a 944 foot cam, but the guy isn't driving the car. lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4iQM9P044Y&feature=related