Author Topic: How do you learn?  (Read 7149 times)

[SJ]Lav69

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2007, 02:12:56 pm »
practice, practice, practice....oh and did I mention practice. For me track knowledge is 75% of the battle. Learning the proper braking points and apex of the corners comes with knowing the tracks inside and out. This may sound redundant but driving the same tracks over and over helps my speed. If I just jump onto a new track I am lost, where some of us can just jump right in it seems.

[SJ]Pierre61

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2007, 12:55:31 am »
I think you have it in a nutshell Mike. I'm finding that as I race the tracks more my times don't improve that much, but the prep work required to hit the time decreases. I'm on an odd schedule at the moment so that helps a lot :)

[SJ]Stein

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2007, 05:46:25 pm »
ok.. i've observed the existance of this thread for a while now... but never actually took the time to read it properly.. anyways.. here's my way of learning new tracks.

Drive lap after lap with a base setup and memorize the corners, go through them first a bit cautious, then a bit faster and then as fast as u dare, once you go off, in THAT particular gear, at THAT rev.count  remember those little info's, then connect the dots and try a faster lap, see where the particular car has difficulties with and try and see what the slow and fast bump settings in yer setups can do.  I usually like my rearwheel driven cars to be steering into a corner when tapping the throttle.. mostly if i let go of the throttle the car will turn further INTO a corner.. i think i heard Satain comment about that one once, power and coast is usually quite high, compared to most running them at 30/10  i'm usually up to 50/80  or wassit the other way around.

I'm not the fastest around here, but i do feel that consistancy in a race can give you a definate advantage compared to others, but they learn too.

i dont care about beeing high up on the scoreboard, it's fun to place in the top 6 or 8, but not a nescessaty. To be honest i've had loads of wins in Race driver 2 online and ....  it was rather boring to win all the frickin time  I love starting from near to the back of the pack so you can see all the accidents, my quali is mostly spent by driving with a full fuel load on tires that are warming up, in other words, 5 laps and i'm back in pits tweaking for a "safe" car so i can at least finish the race.

Mindset is also important, if i'm pissed off i make more mistakes, but if i'm relaxed it's not good either, so a small adrenalinrush is quite good, alltho it's still not a real life situation, i try and take care for other ppl mistakes and that's probly the truckdriver in me.

Popular example.. sry shite.. it's you.   I know Sh!teR!der has an agressive way/style of driving which gives him the fruits of labor, but i just know that when i brake early, he's gonna clobber me, i look ahead and behind and just know what the hell is going on behind me at almost all times. I know the lads we race with, what most of theyre styles are and where to be carefull for them. But also when i'm closing in on someone i plan ahead on where i want to pass them... so i'm keeping my distance in certain corners and roll in on others, just planning when they take a corner wide or something that i KNOW ill be faster outtof them, but allso considering the car i'm in.. if it's a mini .. ill overtake a mustang in the corner, but i wont be planning to overtake it on a straight! duhh!

I just love racing with all you guys and hoping not to hit you, i've seen nasty lag-accidents happening due to door to door racing, so ill keep those couple of inches between you and me for my own safety.

Good practice for learning tracks is indeed in the late hours, i remember Tornado and me testing out AF-GTL1 .. him in a Corvette, me in an escort. we were just inches apart in laptimes, which was awsome.. but the "follow the leader" or "bite the bumper and hold on" tactics donot work for all.

Not everybody has the ability to see beyond ones opponent and see the turn coming.. and this is where most ppl make mistakes, they just watch the guy infront and react to their brakelights.... but this would mean if i'm going to miss the turn.. so's the guy behind me.
I usually try and see where the track is going and just look past the guy infront.. or the multiple guys like at the start and just brake early... i just dont want to be rated like a coulthard on a Spa Gp rainy day!!?!
If i see someone is definately faster then me, he'll have to wait for a couple of corners and ill stray aside coming outtof a corner

The only part i think i've improved in is consistancy, knowing when yer car/tires are shot and not pushing harder then possible. I dont think i'm drifting it hardly enough either, but i dont care  i just love racing online.


Anyways.. i've made my points and no offence Sh!te, i know how you are on track and yer a fair one at it m8, no problem at all.. you can punt me anytime.  lol.. no.. not EVERYTIME!  :punk:

oh... and when i dont understand a particular corner, eg double apex or something i just stop there in Singleplayer, go to outside view and just look around and try and see a possible line through there.. whilst either beeing stopped or rolling slowly through the corner.

Woof ~ Woof

« Last Edit: March 27, 2007, 05:57:57 pm by SJ_Stein »

[SJ]Pierre61

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2007, 06:17:50 pm »
Nice piece Frank... the following, especially,  gave me pause for thought:

"Not everybody has the ability to see beyond ones opponent and see the turn coming.. and this is where most ppl make mistakes, they just watch the guy infront and react to their brakelights...."

I can see this in myself... and can see it a definate point to improve.

(There is a nice balance of 'technical' and 'psychological' advice in this thread.. absorbing stuff)

[SJ]Jump_Ace

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2007, 07:54:09 pm »
Well for me, my improvements honestly come from my mistakes.  Its like I have to learn what not to do before I learn what to do.  In GT4 I am used to a more frequent sector update, usually 3 or more for a track and here I see that its usually twice which means I have to go solely by how it feels, which is fine I am usually within a tenth of predicting my next sector times anyway but I just need all the help I can get.  I wish I could watch some F1, I can watch Nascar *yawn* but why?  If I think I'm doing well and have my buddy Curtis there to put me in my place, lol.  Practice is the key tho, if you have no desire to race than you will never improve.  I find any tips help really, whether verbal or visual, for me its probably pretty obvious what I"m doing wrong, haha.

Jerome

[SJ]Dion Holzheimer

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2007, 09:47:47 pm »
Some really good posts in this thread :salute:

Excellent reading.

[SJ]Patrick

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2007, 08:04:28 am »
By learning the track, I've then had a basis to construct a setup. I work out a basic set that I can get around the track with. Then I start winding it up for ten laps or so till  I feel I can tell were biggest troubles are. If I lock up the brakes all the time I wind back the brake ratio . If I keep spinning in while turning off throttle, I **** the ***.
Remember to use varying amounts of throttle/brake. Full throttle and full brakes are a recipe for full crash.
Develop your own setup as you'll never learn how to develop speed otherwise. I always use my own setups. It's half the fun!
Learn the track.
I race against the robots to learn how to survive the first two laps. This really helps iron out the setup basics. But the online track has different traction, response to input etc and so fine tuning is needed.

I race OSJ and really rate their season structure. With the fastest drivers taking slower cars it gives the new/slower drivers a chance to learn the lines, get in the race and learn to compete.

And learning takes time.

 :)

[SJ]Dion Holzheimer

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2007, 08:12:10 am »
With the fastest drivers taking slower cars it gives the new/slower drivers a chance to learn the lines, get in the race and learn to compete.


Certainly this helps a lot. Lots of drivers in OSJ have improved in leaps and bounds because they are being involved week in week out and not just trailing behind every single race alone.

[SJ]Nailz

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2007, 01:08:59 pm »
I agree with the setup thing... by making your own setup you have to run laps and laps and laps to iron it out, thus killing two birds with one stone, learning the track, and having a "sticky" car.....

[SJ]CasparGTL

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2007, 01:45:07 pm »
1
I drove GPL with default setups for 4 years and learned a LOT by dealing with what I got in 7 quite different 67 F1 cars, sometimes hundreds of laps at one track on my own.

2
In GTL an eye opener for me was.
Online practice with T Hez at Suzuka in the 911.
Watching replays, getting comments and then driving on my own, always hearing the comments in my head.
If I feel uncomfotable in any car or at any track, I still use those basic rules.

3
Suzuka 911 test:
- drive alien setup and see that you can't do shoips with it.
- load default setup and drive 10 laps.
- change 1 detail from default to his setup like brake bias and drive another 7 laps or so to give yourself a chance to see if you understand what it does.
- change another thing and drive again.
and so on and so on.
After some 65 laps I was driving the exact same setup as T Hez and I felt very comfortable with it and after some 60 more laps I'm in the top 5 or 10 at GTL Rank.

4
Pick a guy thats faster than you and see how far you are of his time, let's say I was in 106% of T Hez's time.
On every track scheduled for next race I don't rest to get within that 106% margin just because I did it before. VERY motivating and rewarding!
Same goes for Dion's times of course. I strive to be in the same second on an average 1.40 minute track and if I'm to far off I see where I leave off or if this time he's just to much quicker.
I use this for SJC practice too, where we are team mates. We stimulate eachother's driving a lot I think, even the faster guy can benifit from this fun stuff.

5
If I come to a new track or car track combo I REALLY take my time to settle in;
- lines first, enjoy the great feeling of going arround smoothly and FEEL the flow of the track and almost understand the guy who designed it. I drive with laptimes visible all the time but it can well distract you and it might be better to turn off the hud first. You'll be surprised how much fluent lines will bring you.
- exits exits exits! If they start to feel good it's SO rewarding and at the same time the guy behind you has such a tough time to get close for the next turn.
- THEN braking later and see how you can use brakes and throttle to help the car turn in both entries and exits, combined with setup adjustments because now you start to feel what YOU want and need the car to do for YOU. One of the things that remained from this 'method' was that I had no idea how hard you can actually brake with these cars andthat's what I'm learning now. GTR2 and rFactor opened my eyes here and also the frustration in watching Dion braking later then me, always, haha. But it's NOT the first thing to learn I tell you!
- if you find or make a nice setup, check if it's good allround for that track.
Like at Zolder, a stiff and grippy setup gave me a lot of speed in the fast turns but I lost half a second at least in the chicanes because the car wouldn't jump and swivel over them curbs, so I made a compromise and it did wel.

Yours truly,

Ile Getmecoate.


« Last Edit: August 13, 2007, 01:56:55 pm by SJ_CasparGTL »

[SJ]dirtyvfr

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2007, 01:59:00 pm »
i've learned that, if i don't like a car and track i don't break my neck trying to learn them, i just don't race them.

but i still like driving rally style when learning and also still use an alfa or cortina with a "know" good (safe) setup to learn a track.


[SJ]CasparGTL

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #36 on: August 15, 2007, 12:36:14 pm »
Very good point Gogs!

If a track makes me nervous I take an easy car from that class and get comfortable with the track first.

Which brings me to another thing I forgot about.

I did many GPL hotlap sessions wher I picked a track and tried to improve all seven cars there, starting with the slowest or most difficult ones.
For instance, I start with the light and nimble Cooper. I find things that are very hard to do with the fast Lotus and train them in the Cooper. Mopre important, some good things you don't even SEE at first in a fast car because it's overshadowed by other things like fear of the high power or twitchy steering so you don't even feel that it could do things that are so obvious in a lower powered or otherwise different car.
When I work my way up to the Lotus I WANT to have that same advantage that I found in the Cooper AND have the benifits from the Lotus.
This always resulted in better PB's.
With 7 quite different cars that gives a LOT of new ways of looking at certain corners and such. It's a fun game.

[SJ]Tysmyster

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #37 on: August 15, 2007, 02:26:39 pm »
Hey guys,

cool thread! As you know I'm still a freshman in both the simjunkies and simracing in general. I always thought I was a pretty good racedriver (played so much Gran Turismo lol) and then I discovered real simracing!

Probably, because I'm so new, my learning curve is still going up pretty steep, really making a lot of progress. Where I always ended up last or not even finishing at first, I'm able to keep up with the back of the grid a lot better now. I really only started doing online simracing when I joined the Simjunkies so I never really spent any time on public servers. It wasn't until I recently joined a public server with Caspar and actually beat everyone!  :excited: that I noticed that I am really making improvements and learning a lot here at Simjunkies! Simjunkies are just very good drivers, I especially noticed that because we drive pretty long races in Simjunkies (30 mins, 20 laps, that's long to me) that consistency and not crashing is something that SJ is much better at than the average simracer. People on public servers generally crash a lot more than we do at SJ.

I use a G25 wheel, clutch and H-shifter where it's used in real life and I always drive on a 145inch projected screen. This makes the driving experience very immersive and fun but also very intense and therefore maybe a bit harder. When I'm closing in on a corner and I'm slowing down as fast as I can, my whole car bouncing up and down from the G-forces, then I don't just see a small square of picture that bounces (normal monitor) no, instead my whole world is shaking and I panic a lot easier.

Since I'm nowhere near the times that some of you guys are driving, I'm not gonna worry about the small bit of time I might lose because of this. I race mostly for fun and I know my own limits. I'll gladl sacrifice some speed for the sake of immersion. Probably, if you would get used to it, it wouldn't even be a disadvantage anymore. I've even heard someone say that when he switched back from projector to monitor he was having a hard time with his coordination.

I'm pretty sure I will improve a lot more in the future, I definitely will keep practicing with you guys! Always fun! Thanks for the tips in this thread!  :gtg:

[SJ]Pierre61

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #38 on: August 15, 2007, 06:49:41 pm »
Great reading from all ... I'm more in Matthias' camp than Caspar's .. but I can appreciate both.
I think we've got to the nub of why this stuff appeals to so many of us... it's not necessarily about finishing in front of someone else (I accept this may be the case for the front pack), but for most of us it's about beating ourselves ... not in a Ted & Kleenex manner, but in just 'getting it' a bit more than we did last time.
I'm unlikely to ever finish ahead of Dion in a race (unless he does the girl thing and quits due to an off .. you tart Dion :) ) , but chances are, if I practice and think, and read, and apply.. I just might beat Pierre this race..

[SJ]KL Mallender

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2007, 08:13:25 pm »
Again, Thanks to all contributers of this thread, much appreciated. Very usefull information.

take care, Kevin.

[SJ]nissan man

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2007, 06:25:22 am »
Marcus brought it to my attention today and i never really looked i my progress before, i have have to say i have progress a lot in the last 6 months or so. Forgive me as this is more a reflection of my progress than telling how i learn.

I first key to my progress is competition. Without other fast drivers on track, how would you ever expect to know how fast is really fast. Guys like Curtis (Hotboi...), Confuser, T Hez, Dion, and the member formally know as PDSM  :), among others, are excelent markers of what is very fast. I guess in some cases you can put my name in there too, but not most cases. Since i mainly race Curtis and Steve(Minorshunt), I use them as my bookmarks, and i watch them for a few laps to see what they are doing. Thinks i have learn from them include: Not turning the wheel too much, being smoother on the throttle, and trying different racing lines, even ones that may seem too strange to work. Some times those odd ones work the best for lap times.

Other things i can say have improved my driving are cars i tend to drive. I mainly race F1-79's, FBMW's, rF3's, with the Panoz's added every once and a while. Anyone who has raced these cars know how hard they can be to just keep on the road, let alone be fast. I think these cars have given me a sense of what the car is about to do, giving me a chance to correct it before it happens.

I think the underlining theme here is just to make sure you have quality track time, not just quanity. I remember my old football coach telling us, "practice doesn't make perfect; perfect practice makes perfect!"

[SJ]Cato Larsen

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2007, 08:11:30 am »
Well, as i now have done simracing for about 3-4 months i find myself still way of in most sims.
still i know that i have improved alot in all rFactor,GTL,GTR2 and Race.

Race gives me more of a feeling that i can do some good. the cars feel a bit more tricky to drive but are more forgiving to errors.
Doing laps on default setup and then tweeking to match my drivin style seems to be the right way to go and then at the same time you learn a way to get your own setup right.

Even though some people say that setting up your car individually is not the way to go for other cars than stockcar racing oval tracks, i have found that for me it is definately  a matter of setting up the car individually instead of symetric.

A good example is this: you have a track with 10 left turns and 4 right turns. it is easy to get that the wheels will be more under pressure on the right side of the car doing many left turns(you can see that in the temperature of the tyres). setting up the wheel base and pressure on each wheel to get it the way you feel is right, is one very good way to feel the difference on track.

also i have learned alot of my limits. trying to be faster than you really are is never a good thing. go harder every time you feel you can and try to have a good flow when driving. if you can match your own laptimes over 10 laps it meens you are doing something right unless you are going unbelieveable slow :biggrin:
Take your time with it and things will come.
I have still ALOT to learn but i feel things are comming along.

Another day another race, it might just be you there on the top of the podium.

[SJ]Pierre61

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2007, 06:20:07 pm »

[SJ]Jarkko Rantajoki

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2007, 08:04:27 pm »

[SJ]Byron

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2007, 01:38:19 am »
U Got the Look!

[SJ]Pierre61

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #45 on: September 08, 2007, 01:44:21 am »
I have almost exactly the same cuff-links as Prince... now that is plenty cool :)

[SJ]ski9600

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #46 on: September 08, 2007, 01:54:54 am »
Separated at birth?

/sorry Jarrko!
// :ner ner: