Author Topic: How do you learn?  (Read 7150 times)

[SJ]Dion Holzheimer

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How do you learn?
« on: March 16, 2007, 01:02:20 pm »
What do you find the best way to improve? Do you learn the best from reading something, or from watching replays or from feedback from others on your laps?

I have noticed sooo many people have improved so much since i started here and I was curious as to what the reason is for your success.

Personally i like to analyse my replays and see if i can notice mistakes. I also pay massive attention to the split times and keep a running score of my best splits. This gets me a long way but once i reach that limit, i usually get another driver to watch my lap to give feedback or i watch another replay to see if im missing something.

But i usually dont have the time or resources to do this with every combo, so im usually stuck with just pushing the limits as much as i can and then finding a way to string my best sectors together for a lap.

If anybody would like my opinion or my view on any of their laps then just send a PM and i will be happy to analyse and even run a few myself and see what we can come up with together.

I know quite a few guys want to "pair" up with faster drivers to learn and i know that this has not been succesfully put into place recently so i thought id try to pull it off a different way. Ask for advice/help via PM or forum post, what ever and i will analyse/help. Im by no means the best and i dont know every trick im the book, but im sure i can offer some help that can be useful.

I have access to GTL, GTR2 and Rfactor.

So many people have helped me over the years and i know how much I appreciate their help.. Ive always wanted to give some people the same feelings that my teachers were abe to give me.

I know many people may think i take this way to seriously. But its what i love and i get a lot of enjoyment out of it. Dion never does things half arsed lol, when it matters to me and when I enjoy it, for some reason i only know 1 speed!, Flat out!. That applies to many more things in real life other than GTL/Racing. eg: health, job and motorbike riding to name a few.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2007, 01:06:02 pm by SJ_Small_Fryz »

[SJ]Pierre61

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2007, 01:45:01 pm »
Part 1.
I TRY to improve by downloading a fast lap .vcr of the track/car combo from No-Grip and watching it a few times to try and get a handle on brake points, corner speed etc. then I run with the AI and watch their lines. The after hours sessions with the lads help immensly also.

Part 2. That's a very cool offer and idea Dion. I'm having particular problems with the last three corners at Barcelona and could sure use some help/analysis (but I know this one is too short notice).

I'll try to post a *laughing* fast lap later on and put the thory to the test!

Cheers
Pete

[SJ]Dion Holzheimer

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2007, 01:51:16 pm »
I'll get a lap up of my 906 within 24hrs. When i get home from work tommorow I will go for a burn and focus on those corners for you. I need to pratice it yet anyway (better dl the track lol).

[SJ]Pierre61

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2007, 01:58:26 pm »
I'll get a lap up of my 906 within 24hrs. When i get home from work tommorow I will go for a burn and focus on those corners for you. I need to pratice it yet anyway (better dl the track lol).


don't suppose you fancy doing a run in a Capri do you?

.. I know... I'm a cheeky pommy bahstaard

[SJ]dirtyvfr

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2007, 02:17:07 pm »
not sure to tell you the truth, sometimes things just click, depending on the car / setup and track, other times it just never feels right, but i have worked out there is no point in me breaking my neck trying to get the fastest lap in qualifying as it's not going to happen so i fuel the car for the race and work on getting consistant laps and as a result the laps times come down on there own.

i don't watch replays and try to find my own lines, that's not to say i never watch replay's and find them most helpful when i'm having problem with a particular corner, this is normally due to the mental picture of the corner (in my head) being wrong, so by watching a few replays from various camera angles i can readjust the mental picture. If i had more time then i might watch more replays as when i have, it's like getting a headstart in learning the track and the lines, it can also help with the interpretation of FFB through the wheel when driving.

one thing that helps me a lot is doing a few wild laps "rally style" and then smoothing everything back down again.

offline practice and race prep time, i don't, but if i'm on-line and see a public server on the same track as the next race i'll join it but normally my practice is limited to SJ servers a few days before the race where you can have fun learning, follow people and watch there lines on track or via the monitor.

Warning - while you were typing 3 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.        

    

[SJ]Satain

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2007, 03:59:01 am »
I think it's that everyone else seems to be improving and pushing me harder than usual and have gotten much better, that and watching other peoples lines and setups etc. to see what i can take out and add to my own knowledge :)

[SJ]JuneBug

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2007, 04:52:57 am »
I learn from watching mainly. F1, CART, NASCAR, V8 Cars when they air a race of them and various other racing events. I learn from all of you and of course while driving the car I am learning.

When I am struggling with a track I will watch my replays to determine if my line is good or could be tweaked...

I just practice and practice and practice... more practice  :biggrin:

[SJ]Tornado

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2007, 07:40:27 am »
Knowing the track and many many laps on particular tracks, as well as running wiht fast guys on off nights is my regieme for where im at @ this point. Just lots of laps, and learning the tracks and the lines,following fast guys and once ya know the line and track start pushin. Like Bread say go to where ya think the limit is, and the cross it, then youll know where it is , the limit that is. Bout it really. Can always learn more an improve,thats evident ;) .

 :toker:

[SJ]Mario-C

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2007, 08:13:44 am »
For me actually learning to ENJOY testing/practice was a big turning point which i really picked up of you   lol

[SJ]Sh1te R1der

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2007, 10:15:36 am »
Find a base set up for the car (906 in this case)... trawl round a few laps to find the problem areas... then just push hard and see where i fly off... not a big fan of endless hours of practice, but seem to be able to memorise the track, bumps, cambers pretty quickly, which is an advantage.

[SJ]2shedz

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2007, 10:17:53 am »
Learn  :?: nope........not sure what that is
:ted:

[SJ]Dion Holzheimer

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2007, 11:11:03 am »
don't suppose you fancy doing a run in a Capri do you?

.. I know... I'm a cheeky pommy bahstaard


As Promised..

Setup

Spent a good hour on this lap.

The last 3 corners..
Well you approach it in 3rd then brake down to 2nd. however dont completly let off the gas. Have about 30% gas all the way around the corner, waiting and waiting and waiting to apex.. Finally the end is in sight! apex now and TRY to increase the throttle in 2nd gear WITHOUT spinning out. Once safely out of this corner we up to 3rd. Then its a bit of a hit n miss to be able to brake then power THROUGH the bend. exiting nice and wide. Now you want to brake before the dark patch in 3rd gear for the last bend and apex it nicely again powering THROUGH the bend (I ran a touch wide in the replay caused by braking a touch too late, but dont think i lost too much time). Now we exit nice and wide again and hopefully you didnt get sideways either. Now shift up to 4th and then 5th just before you cross the line.

Major tips in this lap is to try to corner smoothly without sliding on exits. Extremely hard to do. Maybe you can adjust the diff to help. I didnt even think of that while lapping o:....

Hope the replays helps!

1'56.339 Capri

Edit!!

1'56.161 in a 906.. Setup

Replays attached.

I belive my limit in 906 is a 1'55.8 or so..
« Last Edit: March 17, 2007, 12:21:27 pm by SJ_Small_Fryz »

[SJ]Pierre61

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2007, 04:42:11 pm »
Thanks so much for this Dion!
I'm going to print it out and stick it next to my monitor. Will hopefully get some practice in after tea, but the Darkside (Mrs B) is making some very strange noises about going out tonight ... let's hope the thought flits out of her mind :)

Again, much appreciated :)

Pete

[SJ]Jarkko Rantajoki

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2007, 05:27:51 pm »
Ive never really went that analytic about my driving... ive started to think much more lately though.. I dont watch my replays... i dont watch others replays... sometimes i might spectate for a lap or two if i feel im too slow on a track.. usually i just try to get my lines and braking ok...
I even used trailbraking before i knew the whole term.. so now that im starting too look into it "speed and technique) much more... im hoping to get a tad faster.. only time will show.
Ive learned a lot from the guys here, but its all been "little by time" rather than making any big changes to my driving. little things make big difference on times and consistency though.  :?:
(nice new smiley B)

[SJ]2shedz

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2007, 05:34:42 pm »
I'm not to bothered about the technical stuff and i just race for fun, but, considering my initial goal when i first joined was to complete a lap, i think its fair to say ive improved a tad and that can ONLY come from you guys
:ted:

[SJ]Pierre61

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2007, 06:06:30 pm »
One thing I've picked up straight away fro Dion's replay and advice is that I'm braking way to late on most corners and then struggling to slow the car and apex it. Maybe ther's hope for me yet!

[SJ]Dion Holzheimer

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2007, 10:45:55 pm »
One thing I've picked up straight away fro Dion's replay and advice is that I'm braking way to late on most corners and then struggling to slow the car and apex it. Maybe ther's hope for me yet!


Definetly!

Focus more on getting a nice line through the corner followed by fast smooth exits. Once your able to do this then you can experiment a bit more with braking later. But 9/10 the time gained by braking that extra few meteres later is easily lost by running wide in the corner, thus killing your exit onto the next straight.

[SJ]dirtyvfr

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2007, 08:22:02 am »
yes, that's a very good idea, start braking miles away for the corner and once you have found a good entry speed for the corner then start moving the brake point closer to corner, it's a much better method than rushing into corners and then trying to move the brake point backwards as your braking markers are behind you !

that all sounds good, but putting it in practice is another matter, once your on the track it's hard to stop yourself for rushing about, i sometimes just go cruising.

cruise: just cruise see if you can do a lap without using the brakes, drive like your about to run out of petrol, set a limit of the max rpm you can use, just chill and have a look around the track, with no understeer or oversteer coming into play, feel how economical the steering movements are. 

rally: see how out of shape you can get the car, going into, mid corner and on the exit of corners.

crash and go off: it's ok to crash, drive at corner way to fast, you might also get a surprise if you make it round, see what happens when you go off, do you get a cut track, does it take you 20 mins to get out of the gravel, do you go into hyperspace, this will help you to work out if it's worth pushing it to the point of going off at a particular corner.

please note: don't get hooked on driving rally style ;) , i use the above driving styles and a few more and have only named them to remind myself when i'm driving that i'm driving in say cruise style as i normally forget after the first 100 yards of a lap. 

PS: it's one thing thinking this stuff, but it's another world on the track and FUN should be the biggest factor.

[SJ]Riven

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2007, 05:07:38 am »
I spent too many hours practising when I should have been studying back when I was at Uni.

Since those days I dont really have to practise much.. Kinda like using a computer.  Once you know the basics of a program, then pretty much all other programs are much the same to use, but with a few small differences.

Same with sim driving.  I can drive any car and any track fairly well (the basics) and it only takes a few laps (depending on circuit/car) to get things up to about 95% of my final best lap.

However that last 5% will take another hour or 3 to get to, and I usually dont bother, excpet for the practise you get during the actual race :)


I dont look at my replays, nor do I look at others.  I do occasionally watch a replay of a race, but only when it was an exception battle that I want to see from the spectators viewpoint.

I dont tend to download setups unless I get really stuck either.. normally have a fairly average base setup that I just make small tweaks to for each track.

I also tend to use the approache of braking at late (usually too late) as possible, and slowly moving it back a little bit if needed.  But this is jsut my driving style.. barrell into the corner as fast and as late as possible, make a mess and collect everything up at the apex, then jump on the gas and catch the oversteer on the way out.  Not pretty, but it serves me well.  This of course changes a bit depending on the car I'm driving.

[SJ]hOt6o4bOi

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #19 on: March 22, 2007, 06:46:13 am »
i learnt everything like Junebug did

onboard footage from the racing series ive watched over the years ~ F1, Champ Cars, Rally, Sportscars

but also doing about 6  1-hour enduro's in go karts, they feel so simular to games

[SJ]Byron

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2007, 10:27:19 am »
I've only been at it a little over a year, and my main learning method is trial and error, combined with the titbits of advice thrown my way from the more experienced racers among us.

I'm the opposite to Riven with the corner entry thing. 

I'll brake as early as I have to, and go as slow necessary, to get a nice smooth line through a turn.  Then, as I practice, I shorten my braking and increase my speed gradually.

One thing that has really helped me lately is focusing my vision ahead on where I want the car to go, rather than looking at where I think I might end up!  So, if I look at the gravel that I'm gradually understeering towards, then that's where I end up...  If I force myself to look up ahead at the end of the rumble strip, then somehow I manage to just touch that with the nearside tyres and away I go.

 :)

« Last Edit: March 22, 2007, 07:51:03 pm by SJ_Byron »

[SJ]nissan man

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2007, 08:45:24 am »
i would say i'm more like Riven in that i try to brake as late as possible and change my line acordingly. i'm still fairly new to sim racing myself as i have only be doing it competatively for a little over a year now. :)

[SJ]2shedz

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2007, 09:05:55 am »
BRAKES   :jawdrop:
(think i may have found my problem)  :ty:
:ted:

[SJ]kzcole

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2007, 09:59:04 am »
Well , I started racing about 5 months ago now & whats helped me learn is practicing, watching others ,& reading bits here & there. I reckon half the battle for me & probably other drivers is getting a decent setup. One of my best races results Ive had,was 4th in 76 league in the eskie around atlanta using Frys's setup. Car felt like it was on rails & was entirely predictable.

Reading "setup guides "has been a help . I still rekon practice has helped alot combined with watching the fast guys, particularly with how smooth they are around the track.

[SJ]GizMoTo

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Re: How do you learn?
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2007, 01:10:04 pm »
Dion thanks for the replay in the Capri i actually improved my times quite a bit after watching that look forward to more in the future




goes off to make list of track/car combinations to get Dion to make more