Author Topic: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed  (Read 2889 times)

[SJ]dirtyvfr

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iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« on: August 22, 2008, 07:19:30 am »
i've used iRacing as an example, but it could be any Sim (and i didn't just think this up)

i should not be able to change anything to do with the steering in any game, if it knows i'm using a G25. (that goes for other controllers as well)

once the wheel is calibrated IN THE SIM that should be it, there shouldn't be a FFB strength slider or change degrees of rotation in the game (or in the operating system that can effect anything), if it knows i have a G25 then it should apply the forces as best it can and also apply the wheel rotation for whatever car, it shouldn't be up to me, it shouldn't be up to the operating system. Everything should be locked as soon as you select your control device.


Talking about iRacing now, they must have the steering data to do the above. 





   


[SJ]AlarmedBread

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Re: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2008, 07:26:39 am »
You can adjust steering ratio, power steering feel and lots of other things with suspension geometry that will effect the feel in every real car ever made.

[SJ]Jarkko Rantajoki

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Re: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2008, 07:29:44 am »
Apparently your post is meant as sarcasm, but ill reply anyway.

Theres always the personal preference, but iRacing is optimised for 900 degrees of rotation, meaning whenever its set to that, it functions as they have meant it to feel.
Of course its about what you like, but iRacing does the (unfortunate) thing of making the steering work non linear on other rotations. About your FFB issues, someone else had the same thing, they felt it was too soft, cant remember what he had wrong though, maybe it was the profiler messing it about.

EDIT:The first line didnt meant you bread, we just posted the same time. :)

[SJ]hOt6o4bOi

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Re: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2008, 07:35:12 am »
you dont like the game, just move on then

[SJ]Jarkko Rantajoki

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Re: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2008, 07:37:32 am »
you dont like the game, just move on then


Its not the worst possible thing to do, theres plenty to drive without iRacing. :)

[SJ]dirtyvfr

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Re: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2008, 07:39:41 am »
hi man

this post is was not meant to be sarcastic in any way shape or form, please don't read it as such.

it's something i've been thinking about for some time.

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.


 


[SJ]Jarkko Rantajoki

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Re: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2008, 07:44:28 am »
ok m8, my bad.
Well.. i guess as long as theres loads of possible input devices (also remember huge amount of custom/high-end gear), it would be too hard to do. Apparently iRacing are trying to make it "equal" to everyone but frankly not succeeding too well, what they should fix as the first thing would be disabling unrealistic input methods. (shifting h-shifter car with paddles etc.)
But they wont.. means less money for them..
:)

[SJ]dirtyvfr

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Re: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2008, 08:01:26 am »
remember this post, although i've posted it here, is not actually totally about iRacing.

Alarmed, yes about the changes, but they should be in the car setup and be realistic, not in the controller setup.

i also understand about other control devices and needing to change things and i'm not for one minute saying the G25 is the end of steering wheel development in anyway or that it's the wheel of wheels.

but i just feel that the sim developers should do a bit more to take control, if they have tyre models and other data, they must have steering wheel torque data, why not even have a button click here for the real deal, then age and liabilty varification on your payment details.

   

 

 

[SJ]Byron

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Re: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2008, 11:22:35 am »
Yeah.  It's ALWAYS going to be a compromise between as realistic a sim as possible, and a user-friendly experience - even in games like iRacing.  Nobody wants to scare off too many potential customers!

I'd like to see cars that require a clutch have their gearboxes shredded if you don't use your clutch when shifting - LFS has gone some way towards this.

On a completely different note...  One thing I was thinking the other day, it'd be great if a sim developer could put in place some sounds that were triggered relative to the damage modelling.

So, you'd hear a worrying knocking noise along with your engine sound a few laps before your big end gave out - that sort of thing.

 :)

[SJ]Cato Larsen

  • God of rFactor
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Re: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2008, 12:52:26 pm »
Yeah.  It's ALWAYS going to be a compromise between as realistic a sim as possible, and a user-friendly experience - even in games like iRacing.  Nobody wants to scare off too many potential customers!

I'd like to see cars that require a clutch have their gearboxes shredded if you don't use your clutch when shifting - LFS has gone some way towards this.

On a completely different note...  One thing I was thinking the other day, it'd be great if a sim developer could put in place some sounds that were triggered relative to the damage modelling.

So, you'd hear a worrying knocking noise along with your engine sound a few laps before your big end gave out - that sort of thing.

 :)


About sounds. I know Race driver (one of them) had that. When your bumper or whatever touched the wheel. You had sound, smoke and finally the tire xploded.

[SJ]Kristof Huyck

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Re: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2008, 04:36:26 pm »
Well, I can understand Jarkko's posts... I mean in iRacing you can't change much about the controls, contrary to ISI based games (like rFactor, GTR2, ...) So you thread title 'iRacing Fundamentally Flawed' is actually misleading as others sims we're racing have the same issue, but only worse (probably)...

It's of course debatable whether it's a good or bad thing that you can't change much about controller settings.

[SJ]nissan man

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Re: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2008, 05:54:31 pm »
Coming from PS2 games were you can't change the wheel settings, believe me the fact that you can adjust the controller is a blessing. in most PS2 games, you cannot adjust the wheel, and the settings are so poor it's unusable. there is sure a thing as over adjusting the wheel, but thats a minor issue.

[SJ]Spike

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Re: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2008, 06:43:56 pm »
You know that is not a bad idea, however, i dont mind going back and forth setting my wheel up. I use 900 in iracing and about 360 in rF and GTR2. Think this should have been posted has a general discussion thread vs the "iracing flawed" message. The tile makes it look like you are singling out iracing.

[SJ]Tornado

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Re: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2008, 09:54:29 pm »
Bottom line is its personal preference, if the game DID decide for you it would be to much rotation for most as very few use all 900" of rotation, so i think its nice to be able to change the settings personally.

:toker:

[SJ]hOt6o4bOi

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Re: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2008, 10:43:18 pm »
the thing is your not using the full 900, you will never need to cross over
it asks you to turn your wheel to 90degree, and adjusts the wheel...

you set it at 900, and it gives you the best feel

[SJ]dirtyvfr

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Re: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2008, 10:21:58 pm »
Bottom line is its personal preference, if the game DID decide for you it would be to much rotation for most as very few use all 900" of rotation, so i think its nice to be able to change the settings personally.

:toker:


buy the way i'm serious about sim racing games being flawed because you can change values.

"personal preference", how do you come to that, stand back and look at that statement. Man i'm just using your quote as it was the last one to say personal preference.

it is nothing like personal preference, how in the world can it be if it's a simulator, you could just imagine a 747 trainee pilot in a simulator, yes i'd like to change the FFB and maybe a few other things, as it feel a bit light when i'm making a turn.

i shouldn't be able to change in car steering to 8 degrees and shouldn't be able to change how linear the steering is.

now i going to post something from iRacing, read it and think about the steering, do you think they would let me change a values in there tyre model !

Physics Engine

A critical difference between game-level simulations and the hyper-accuracy achieved by iRacing.com is the sophistication of our physics engine.

A physics engine is a complex system of mathematical functions that replicates dynamic forces using data-driven calculations of action and reaction. It's those instantaneous calculations that create iRacing.com's three-dimensional sphere of existence, a virtual world with the same physical dynamics drivers experience in the real world.

With more than 20 racing-simulation releases (more than a dozen of which have garnered industry awards) to their credit, Dave Kaemmer and his team are among the world's leading experts in the mapping of multi-body systems and the calculation of forces and their effects on motion.

Kaemmer's relentless search for accuracy has led to the creation of a new, proprietary tire model. It replicates tire forces over a wide range of speeds and loads, adding an important dimension to the accuracy of the iRacing.com experience.


Vehicle Modeling

Most racing video games, as well as the handful of software packages that could be considered racing simulations, have progressed to the point where the cars look real. The question is: Do they feel real? Realistic driving dynamics start with accurate data. That is why iRacing.com works closely with major auto manufacturers and racecar constructors to gather exact masses and dimensions for vehicle components, whether outputted directly from CAD data or collected through three-dimensional laser scanning, as well as physical disassembly of the vehicle to weigh and measure parts of the chassis, suspension and driveline.

But in the same way that a racecar is not just a collection of parts, an accurate simulation is not just an assembly of data. Both are active and dynamic. Thanks to the iRacing.com physics engine, that data comes alive. It is no longer just a graphical representation of a stockcar, formula car or sports car. It is now a complex set of interrelated, mechanical systems influencing a myriad of ever-changing forces to control physical consequences. It feels real because, mathematically, it is real.


AND YOU LET ME CHANGE THE FFB strength and other values. 












   

[SJ]Jarkko Rantajoki

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Re: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2008, 11:47:22 pm »
Well, every simulations needs to have a bit of game in them to make em fun enough imo. :)

[SJ]Jett

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Re: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2008, 12:20:30 am »
Quote
buy the way i'm serious about sim racing games being flawed because you can change values.


I am waiting for you to make a sim. Should be amazing.

[SJ]Byron

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Re: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2008, 12:21:16 am »
 lol

[SJ]DRokK

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Re: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2008, 12:29:37 am »
i understand your point gogs, and its true of all racing games/sims. this thread should be about them all.
i for one hope game developers do get to read this thread and bear it in mind for their next product.  :salute:

[SJ]dirtyvfr

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Re: iRacing Fundamentally Flawed
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2008, 11:40:29 am »
Quote
by the way i'm serious about sim racing games being flawed because you can change values.


I am waiting for you to make a sim. Should be amazing.



by the way i'm serious about sim racing games being flawed because you can change values

no i'm never going to make any sim, but i stand by my comment, so i'll post it again