Author Topic: 64 bit: Why run it?  (Read 6567 times)

[SJ]DenDanger

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64 bit: Why run it?
« on: August 18, 2009, 01:32:06 am »
 I been thinking there must be someone here who could tell us what we need to know without overcomplicating it.

 So, I do understand that 64 bit is used in many business apps and that it's way under-rated.

 I also understand the biggest prooblem seems to be drivers but easily enough solved by using products that have 64 bit drivers, I assume?

 And so my bottom line question.

 Why run it?

 How does "our" games run  with it? Can they? Is it a pain in the ass to do so? (Like many of the stories for instance about runnning some titles with Vista, W7 etc.) Or is it fairly straightforward?

 Does it have an advantage once installed say with GT legends? Or other games? Or does a game specificaly have to have a 64 bit capability to have an advantage with it?

 And if so/not, which games? And are there games which will definitely NOT run at all with it?

 I ask because though I'M not o the market, I see more and more gaming PCs that have it installed and thought some answers might benifit those that might be.

 I open the floor..... :D

[SJ]Kristof Huyck

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2009, 01:55:17 am »
My game system runs on Vista X64 and while it has no advantage for 'our' games it's also no disadvantage because 32bit apps do run as normal.
There are some games that can run in 64bit mode, but the list is not big (A list)

The main issue is that Windows XP/Vista/7 32bits can't take advantage of more than 4gb of ram (actually even 3.2-3.3gb) and since there are not really any drawbacks anymore of running 64bits (availability of drivers is very good, all new cpu's you can buy are 64bits capable, ...) 64bits versions of Windows are becoming more and more popular. It's a natural evolution, just like going from 16bits to 32bits...

[SJ]JuneBug

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2009, 02:01:29 am »
Yup, most reasons I have heard people moving to 64 bit is to take advantage of Windows being able to use more that 3 gigs of RAM  :yes:

[SJ]DenDanger

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2009, 02:21:49 am »
 So, if I had a 64 bit O.S.

 I'd just install GTL, GTR2, GTREvo, FSX,  etc as normal?
 Hmm. This is starting to intrigue me now. I read one article that if I read right said basically Photoshop would be MUCH faster with 64 bit.

 I wonder if my PC would run it? Heeheehee. Guess I should check.
 Thanks for that link Kristof. lot's of info there.

 My Cpuz says EM64T so. Might be a thought next time I upgrade O.S.

 Is it possiible to upgrade to XP 64 bit without wiping my current 32 bit install?

 I also noticed there's not a huge difference in price for Vista 64 bit. Again, could I install it without starting over completely?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 02:52:01 am by [SJ]DenDanger »

[SJ]Jarkko Rantajoki

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2009, 05:35:16 am »
If you want to start experiencing 64bit computing, get the Windows 7 64bit. Free, lightyears better than Vista.. and can go along with 32bit xp.
Ive had Windows 7 64 as my only os for quite while now.. i play GTL, rCraptor, GTR2, iRacing, LFS, GTR Evo, FSX, FS9, Rise Of Flight, IL2, Ship Simulator etc.. anything
without problems, and with great performance too. Most companies are allready releasing official drivers for Windows 7, for example ATI just did a week or so ago.
I can very strongly recommend.. Im still stunned how good and trouble free this bloody os is..

[SJ]Kristof Huyck

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2009, 09:58:11 am »
Windows 7 is just an evolution to Vista Jarkko. I really don't understand all the hype around Windows 7... don't get me wrong it's a nice os but only slightly better then Vista.

I think you can buy Vista 64bit which included a free upgrade to windows7 (becomes available at octobre 22) I think you can still download the RC of windows 7 and play with the OS a bit.

Because Vista and 7 are so close related many of the 'Vista' drivers just work in 7 too.

Beta

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2009, 10:10:36 am »
Hello

We have run Vista 64 ultimate on 2 exact systems here for nearly 3 years with no problems really,
sound blaster cards were a pain and not in my system now.
But everything else i use works with no problems what so ever i have been very pleased with it and really cant understand the problems other people have had...........unless it was run on older machines with not a lot of memory.

Now my son has had a format and is trying windows 7 for this magic speed increase....now he has 4gig ram and i have 8 but nothing seems any different what so ever....apart from it looks different lol  
He is a gamer too and also uses Photoshop CS4 64bit.

Now he has had no problems with it as yet but seen nothing interesting either.

But if i was to buy a new system and OP then i would get 7 64bit anyway.

Just my view

Beta.

[SJ]Jarkko Rantajoki

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2009, 10:15:35 am »
Windows 7 is just an evolution to Vista Jarkko. I really don't understand all the hype around Windows 7... don't get me wrong it's a nice os but only slightly better then Vista.

I think you can buy Vista 64bit which included a free upgrade to windows7 (becomes available at octobre 22) I think you can still download the RC of windows 7 and play with the OS a bit.

Because Vista and 7 are so close related many of the 'Vista' drivers just work in 7 too.


I think i tried Vista for 3 separate times, tried everything i could to get it perform and work reasonably.. trouble after trouble..
to me windows 7 has been even smoother experience than xp in many ways.. so its easy after all the experiences consider
Windows 7 a pretty awesome os.. trouble free and well performing.. its a real blessing to me at least.
so its not hype, its based on first hand experience.

[SJ]AlarmedBread

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2009, 02:37:52 pm »
The main benefits I have found with GTL etc. is that you can pick which CPU the game runs on, and which CPU the rest of your programs run on. So I can be messing around doing my usual stuff, browsing the web while I race on the other monitor. ;) Really you can use head tracking, music and all that jazz and not hurt your in game FPS. I do this a lot when uploading photos from my camera, compiling or extracting files or other routine tasks that are limited by other hardware than the CPU.

In photoshop you do see some good gains, as in many other 3d applications which utilize multiple cores. It can really boost your productivity in graphics work. If you have the hardware to support it, I highly suggest utilizing the potential you've got sitting infront of you.

[SJ]DenDanger

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2009, 03:33:34 pm »
 Yeah, I understood W7 was merely Vista with the bugs worked out. I also read an article saying a while back Microdoft was showing a "new" O.S. called Mojave and after people were commenting on it revealed it was Vista. lol

 One article I read said that the complaints about Vista were no longer valid on newer copies and even XP had teething problems. And I see some people say it's perfect and others say it's crap.

 I'm not gonna do this for quite some times (broke beyond broke, lol ) so W7 may well be out by then proper. I am thinking Vista 64 as the price difference isn't noticeable and I suppose XP still would limit my RAM so if I'm going to eventually make the move I should do it properly. that and I guess it won't be long before Microsoft stops supporting XP, along with everyone else. I went through THAT with 98SE.

 Memory, I have already 4GB so that should be okay.

 Drivers: I see already they are available for my GPU. My tuner card and sound card I don't know though but would check closer to the time as I wasn't even thinking about this yesterday....lol


 Trying to think what else I need drivers for? oh my camera software but I think I been using Windows for that.

 Okay, so IF I did the move. Vista 64 would install right over my XP install? Change drivers and done? Then later add W7 over that?

 That just about cover it?

[SJ]Kristof Huyck

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2009, 03:55:13 pm »
well... I never upgrade, I always do a fresh install and install the apps I really need. It should be possible however to migrate to Vista 64 and later upgrade to windows 7. What was not possible in the RC was to upgrade from XP to windows 7 directly, however I'm not sure if that still will be the case with the final version of windows 7.

So two options here I guess; the one you described or wait a few months and do a fresh install of windows 7.

[SJ]DenDanger

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2009, 04:17:51 pm »
Oh, it'll be at LEAST a few months!! If not a year.

 Maybe that's a point too as I tend to do a fresh install every year or so anyways. Good point.

 But yeah, I'm seriously thinking when I leave XP, I'll be going 64 bit. You've convinced me.

D Whitney

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2009, 05:33:47 pm »
If you've got 4 GB or more RAM and are running Photoshop, those are 2 very good reasons to move to 64 bit. I'd agree with others saying Windows 7 is the preferable OS. I've worked with stable 64 bit Vista installs, but even now there's a few too many cases of pooched 3rd party drivers for it. I also think were only about 1-2 years at most away from most games being written to take advantage of 64 bit, so this year is probably the time to make the jump

[SJ]DenDanger

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2009, 05:48:56 pm »
 I use Photoshop a lot and have 4 GB of RAM so......Hmm....lol

[SJ]Andrew Dawes

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2009, 03:26:29 am »
Don't really have much to add beyond the first post but just to throw in 2 cents.

I run 64bit Vista.  I had all the same questions you have when i was spec'ing a new PC at the end of last year.  There was a lot of bad comments on the net, all the fear-mongering that it would have problems with drivers and when there is little justification for going to it...it was a bit of a hard call.

In the end i decided
- i wanted a lot of ram because its the thing that always ran out first on my old pc's over the years.  
- 64bit is the future so i might aswell jump on board

The decision seemed like more risk taking than good functional decision making - but it seems to have worked out.

The only issue i had was with Dragon Voice Recognition software v10 - i bought it - and had to upgrade to 10.1 free but with full download.  So not realy a problem.

I put 8GB of reasonable standard ram in because it was so rediculously cheap and this supported my decisions.  Ultimately i didn't want to limit myself to 3.5Gb Ram and run Vista.  Vista concerned me a lot more than the 32bit/64bit question.  The vista decision was also a good call...even if a bit of work to get it to accept GTL & IL-2.

Marcus

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2009, 06:28:49 am »
If you are going to download Windows 7, you better get it quick.  Today is the last day Microsoft is making the RC available.

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/dd353205.aspx?ITPID=mscomsc

If you wait, you will have to get it from a torrent I guess.

[SJ]DenDanger

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2009, 06:29:49 am »
 What'd you have to do to run GTL and IL2?

[SJ]Andrew Dawes

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2009, 07:45:04 am »
What'd you have to do to run GTL and IL2?


I honestly cannot remember Il-2 - it was looking touch and go - plus i have not tried online - only recently bought it

GTL - is pretty straight forward and is all in the installation.  You have to upgrade starforce after it is installed and before running the game - the isntructions are posted somewhere and if no one finds the link to the instructions i'll look sometime in the next few days.

[SJ]Andrew Dawes

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2009, 08:03:42 am »
I searched on SimJunkies but couldn't find anything.  Found this on nogrip and it looks like the Vista 64 instructions i followed (with the admin step down further). 

http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7135

Is that what you wanted to know?

[SJ]DenDanger

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2009, 08:22:51 am »
I searched on SimJunkies but couldn't find anything.  Found this on nogrip and it looks like the Vista 64 instructions i followed (with the admin step down further). 

http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7135

Is that what you wanted to know?


 Cool. So not so bad. just dreaming now anyways but there's some great info here. Thanks guys!!

[SJ]Kristof Huyck

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2009, 10:06:55 am »
What'd you have to do to run GTL and IL2?


I honestly cannot remember Il-2 - it was looking touch and go - plus i have not tried online - only recently bought it

GTL - is pretty straight forward and is all in the installation.  You have to upgrade starforce after it is installed and before running the game - the isntructions are posted somewhere and if no one finds the link to the instructions i'll look sometime in the next few days.


GTL is in fact certainly NOT straight forward on Windows 7 (32 & 64bit) as StarForce refuses to work, so the only thing you can do is 'remove' starforce or download a torrent where that's already done for you. There a thread about windows 7 where you can read more about the GTL issue...

On Vista (32/64bits) it's indeed a matter of updating starforce.

[SJ]hendrix

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2009, 11:51:08 am »
Oh, it'll be at LEAST a few months!! If not a year.

 Maybe that's a point too as I tend to do a fresh install every year or so anyways. Good point.

Fresh install .. oh my i tend to do a fresh install every 6 months or less.. but im installing and uninstallaling all the time and mess things up.. wish i could stop messing about with my computer . But I've alwasy been the same since my first Sinclair Spectrum .. now thats a long time lol


[SJ]Jarkko Rantajoki

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2009, 03:25:36 pm »
Kristof theres a starforce version out that fully supports windows 7 64 bit, i know because im running it with DCS black shark and no problemos at all.

[SJ]Kristof Huyck

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2009, 04:00:21 pm »
Kristof theres a starforce version out that fully supports windows 7 64 bit, i know because im running it with DCS black shark and no problemos at all.


There are multiple versions of StarForce Jarkko (GTL a not so new one of course), have you tested GTL yet  :?:

[SJ]Jarkko Rantajoki

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Re: 64 bit: Why run it?
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2009, 04:01:50 pm »
Ah ok.. yeah i installed GTL long time ago, at that time i did remove starforce and apply the crack.